What are FIA doing to attract new manufacturers? - Page 2

Langdale Forest

It is not capable because of DAVE.

theugsquirrel

We will see what happens to WRC now that Jean Todt is in control.

jonkka

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
We will see what happens to WRC now that Jean Todt is in control.

That's something I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, he's got decent rallying roots unlike Max - on the other hand, he's spent years with the evils of F-One and I suspect that has corrupted his judgement.

Besides, President of the FIA is not a tyrant, he cannot dictate what will be done or won't be done. It's still more or less democratic organization, meaning that big wussy federations that love F-One, they still rule.

Tomi

Originally Posted by jonkka
Besides, President of the FIA is not a tyrant, he cannot dictate what will be done or won't be done. It's still more or less democratic organization, meaning that big wussy federations that love F-One, they still rule.

Well said, the biggest cry babies here seem to how no idea what so ever how desitions are made by FIA.
More important than FIA is the rally comission, when it comes to rules or what ever changes, because it they who suggest FIA when they want changes, so look carefully who your countrys represent is there.

Sulland

Originally Posted by Tomi
Well said, the biggest cry babies here seem to how no idea what so ever how desitions are made by FIA.
More important than FIA is the rally comission, when it comes to rules or what ever changes, because it they who suggest FIA when they want changes, so look carefully who your countrys represent is there.

THis cry baby have read a bit on how FIA works, and one thing is clear: FIA has nothing to do with democracy, at least in the european sense of the word.

And for the record, the rally commission is also FIA. FIA is not just the head of the org, it is also the body.

Can we once more have a look at the members of the rally commission, and then see what competence and rally experience they have...

AndyRAC

Originally Posted by Sulland
THis cry baby have read a bit on how FIA works, and one thing is clear: FIA has nothing to do with democracy, at least in the european sense of the word.

And for the record, the rally commission is also FIA. FIA is not just the head of the org, it is also the body.

Can we once more have a look at the members of the rally commission, and then see what competence and rally experience they have...

Rally, what Rally....???

Tomi

Originally Posted by Sulland
And for the record, the rally commission is also FIA. FIA is not just the head of the org, it is also the body.

Offcourse it is a part of FIA, and its in the rallycomission where the important work is done, evrything above that is just a lable they hardly change suggestions that comes from the comission, therefore they who are the people in the comission is important, we here are in a lucky situation that our guy in the comission understand the sport, listen, takes advises, and inform us whats going on there regulary, maybe it would be an more effective way to try to effect comission members instead of..........................

jonkka

Originally Posted by Sulland
FIA has nothing to do with democracy, at least in the european sense of the word.

The name FIA (=Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) says it's a federation. If we want to abuse the comma, federation is not a democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation) but federation still is democratic form of government, as opposed to other -cracies or tyranny.

Rally Power

FIA Rally Commission work it’s marked by two major faults:

New WRC cars regulations are not yet decided even they’ve been debated since 2007 (almost 3 years!).
WRC promotion was endorsed to the same company (ISC) that has previously failed on the job. This decision was not only unfair – other interested player, Eurosport Events, proved a damn good job by raising its own series – but also dangerous to rally future, giving space to a disturbing competition between WRC and IRC.

Let’s hope Mr. Todt can provide proper solutions to this troubled issues, because without them we'll hardly see new manufacturers involved at rally sport.

Tomi

Originally Posted by Rally Power
giving space to a disturbing competition between WRC and IRC.

in what way are theese 2 competing?

DonJippo

Originally Posted by Rally Power
WRC promotion was endorsed to the same company (ISC) that has previously failed on the job.

You are mixing things here ISC was not promoter before, actually no-one was, they have had the commercial rights for years but they were not promoter before.

AndyRAC

Originally Posted by DonJippo
You are mixing things here ISC was not promoter before, actually no-one was, they have had the commercial rights for years but they were not promoter before.

Quite true, when David Richards bought ISC off Bernie he had all kinds of plans for the future of the sport - so he was in effect the 'Un-Official Promoter'. Funnily enough, the latest owners of ISC seem to want to reverse the ideas that DR had. Not too soon in my opinion.

Rally Power

Originally Posted by Tomi
in what way are theese 2 competing?

Are you blind?

Rally Power

Originally Posted by DonJippo
You are mixing things here ISC was not promoter before, actually no-one was, they have had the commercial rights for years but they were not promoter before.

Don't seems likely that someone who's only in charge of commercial rights could have power enought to impose drastic changes into world rallys, like the ones seen over the last decade, with the negative results we all know.

Like so many times before, FIA decision on the WRC promoter selection wasn’t clear enough and it’s doubtful it was taken on the sport best interest.

Tomi

Originally Posted by Rally Power
Are you blind?

not blind, you did the statement, explaine please how they compete against each other

Daniel

Tomi's right. The WRC is still top dog in the public eye.

N.O.T

there are two things that the manufacturers want from a motorsport

1. Make money

2. Spend less than they make through advertising and marketing their brand

FIA must make a solid set of rules for the next 10 years or so....make a rather cheap base (but not one that every useless sick dog mechanic can copy and be competitive) car which will eventually through evolution will become expensive and start over

About the events, introduce new BIG selling markets to the WRC (still not a USA event)

Make rallying TV attractive so sponsors can get their moneys worth

a manufacturer will not enter the WRC for the love of the sport.

Now are they doing any of the above ?? Not very successfully is the answer.

theugsquirrel

Originally Posted by jonkka
That's something I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, he's got decent rallying roots unlike Max - on the other hand, he's spent years with the evils of F-One and I suspect that has corrupted his judgement.

Besides, President of the FIA is not a tyrant, he cannot dictate what will be done or won't be done. It's still more or less democratic organization, meaning that big wussy federations that love F-One, they still rule.

Todt is proposing commisioners of each of the major series which the FIA governs, in essence meaning that there will be a boss of the WRC who will oversee the decisions being made. So really, I don't think the popularity and marketability of F1 should (ideally) affect the governance of the WRC if Todt nominates the right candidate.

Tomi

[quote=N.O.T;714875
FIA must make a solid set of rules for the next 10 years or so....make a rather cheap base (but not one that every useless sick dog mechanic can copy and be competitive) car which will eventually through evolution will become expensive and start over

About the events, introduce new BIG selling markets to the WRC (still not a USA event) [/QUOTE]

On atleast theese important points they are working now, not sure if they make solid rules for 10 years, but 5 would be an big impovement already, it would be the best way for saving money too, the stuff they done sofar has been more or less cosmetic.
Also new markets are on the way, South Africa for instance.

AndyRAC

Originally Posted by N.O.T
there are two things that the manufacturers want from a motorsport

1. Make money

2. Spend less than they make through advertising and marketing their brand

FIA must make a solid set of rules for the next 10 years or so....make a rather cheap base (but not one that every useless sick dog mechanic can copy and be competitive) car which will eventually through evolution will become expensive and start over

About the events, introduce new BIG selling markets to the WRC (still not a USA event)

Make rallying TV attractive so sponsors can get their moneys worth

a manufacturer will not enter the WRC for the love of the sport.

Now are they doing any of the above ?? Not very successfully is the answer.

While I agree with your points, a lot of them were implemented when DR got the Commercial rights, when he bought ISC off Bernie.

He thought by having a central Service area this would make it would make it easier for sponsors/VIPs.
Having 9-5 hours making it easier for TV to cover.

All these changes, trying to make WRC like 'F1 on Gravel' haven't really worked - in fact it's had the opposite effect - and driven sponsors, Manufacturers, media, fans away.

I agree that rules/regs need to be stable, and in the current economic climate, simple - meaning cheap, simple cars that Privateers can be competitive with.

Having many Teams, Drivers, Manufacturers fighting for wins, Championships is what will bring in interest of media, fans, sponsors, etc
As you rightly say, Manufacturers are in it to sell cars - if they don't feel they are getting Value for Money, they will pull out - as many have - unfortunately, nothing was done. The warning signs were there as far back as 2004/05.